When England depart tournaments it often feels as if a pressure valve is released. Fans bring tension because you never know when a harmless jolly-up will turn nasty

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Welcome to France, where everyone needs to chill the hell out. This may help. Please press play. 

So the Football Association, government and police have stopped and banned thousands of hooligans from traveling abroad for 20 years now but still foreign police, local hooligans and opposing fans – this time the Russians – continue to attack genuine English football fans, women and children. UEFA threaten to ban England from the tournament, the British press are falling over themselves to blame the English supporters, it's an absolute joke. I suppose that last night's trouble between German and Ukrainian fans is England's fault, too? Where were the French police in the ground when Russian lunatics attacked English fans with their children? I've just watched a ten minute video of non-stop rioting and, guess what, not a French copper in sight. But, don't worry, when a pub full of English fans start a sing song, there will be tear gas everywhere. How about banning the host nation France, as the locals seem to be attacking everyone while their police stand by and watch? Kendo813, Thornaby On Tees.

Always the victims, it's never our fault. UEFA charged Russia over their behaviour in the stadium and threatened them with expulsion if there is even a hint of trouble in the stadiums in future. England weren't charged, but were warned, so it is plain that other nations are being treated lightly. The French police haven't been too impressive – they were flexing their muscles in entirely stupid ways at the Stade de France on Monday, stopping people from reaching the stadium through the prescribed access points, for no reason – but maybe they are more intent on stopping the country going the way of an Orlando night club. Ever considered that? There will have been a major counter-terrorism security operation in place on Saturday, that left them ill-equipped to keep the peace. Also, Kendo, you know how everyone talks about a minority of England fans out to cause trouble? What is certainly a minority is these women and children that I keep hearing are the main victims of Russian hooliganism. Of course, not all England fans are blind drunk and behaving anti-socially, but I'd say they were more of them in Marseille than they were happy families. Joey Barton said he, a friend and his kid came across the Russian heavy mob in Marseille and they were not interested. They were scared, but walked through the middle of them, with no trouble. Anyway, it's a big fat hooligan debate this week, following my piece on Monday in the aftermath of the carnage in Marseille. I'm not down on England fans. I know we've got plenty of good ones. I know the Russians were responsible for scenes of extreme violence last Saturday. But equivalency isn't relevant. 'We're not as bad as that lot' is no excuse. Why don't we write about the Russians? Well, for starters, most of us did. We need to address our own problems first, though. We're in no position to start lecturing the world if we can stop our fans battling the police. More of this – plenty more of this – below.

Oh, for God's sake, most of our fans aren't any worse than fans of other teams. It's the Russians you want to be writing about. They're lowlife scum. Ren85, Sheffield.

I did write about the Russian hooligans, though. Their presence could be felt throughout the piece and you are right: lowlife scum. But this idea that our fans are like all the others? Untrue. There is a significant problem element and it is not getting smaller.

All the talk of the referendum centres on immigrants from the European Union. These are the morons who should be stopped having freedom of movement. Betis Steve, Seville.

Yes, these immigrants come over here, have no interest in our culture and do not try to assimilate, says a drunk, sunburnt, aggressive man in a French town square, breaking off briefly from a large group chanting: 'F*** off Europe, we're all voting out.'

England fans hurl missiles at the police during violent clashes in Marseille's Old Port prior to Saturday's game

The Russians are really sinister, geared up in masks to fight, however the English are not going to get any help from the police if they've been squaring up to them and chucking the odd bottle. Kloppofanatic, United Kingdom.

I saw Alan Smith play for Leeds at Tottenham a few years back. The press box at White Hart Lane is quite low down and you can hear, as well as see, a lot of what goes on. Smith gave the officials abuse throughout the game, particularly the linesman nearest us. Late on, he jumped with a raised arm which caught Mauricio Taricco, although it looked accidental. The referee consulted his linesman, who could have saved Smith with the benefit of the doubt. Unsurprisingly, he did not.

We took my nine year old son to the Champions League final in Milan. What a lovely atmosphere. Yes there was drinking and banter but the Spanish fans and the Italians were happy, the restaurants were full, there were families, activities for kids, loads of females all soaking it up with the Milanese. We felt safe. I would never take my son or go, as a woman, to an England match. There are plenty of good England fans – let down by those who just go for the drinking, to cause trouble and fight. They alienate real fans. Aaaaa, Buckinghamshire.

Those who say that England's fans are no different to the others, invariably do not have great experience of these tournaments when England go home – or of matches like the Champions League final. When England depart it often feels as if a pressure valve is released. We bring tension because there is an element that is without boundaries. You never know what will happen, whether the mood will flip, whether a harmless jolly-up will turn nasty. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But the wondering – it isn't pleasant.

It is no coincidence that there is always trouble with the eastern bloc countries, and often Italy. You see this every year in the Champions league and Europa League. These countries have aggressive Ultra groups who still see England as a target. Bulu29, Hertfordshire.

The Russians certainly saw a successful battle with the English as a perverse trophy to win. Not so sure what the Italians have to do with it. Hooliganism is Italy is much more centred around clubs. I can't recall Italian fans fighting at a tournament.

What worries me is, what do these drunken louts do when there is no England football? Peter, Westgate on Sea.

Been to town on a Friday or Saturday night lately, Peter?

Fans of most countries like a few drinks and a good time - who doesn't? But there is an English culture of drinking oneself silly. You only need to walk into any English city centre on a weekend to see this is nothing new. Once they are drunk, their version of fun is unlike any other country and brings out the inner hatred and little Englander who still believes in Empire - akin to the Leave Europe campaign in fact. GarySin, London.

Oh, don't start making that connection, Gary. They get ever so upset if you require them to take responsibility for their rhetoric.

What seemed to start out as an honest appraisal of some of our fans behaviour, then, rather disappointingly, descends into 'but it's not all our fault'. Sorry, but we cannot go on making excuses for the behaviour of these thugs that go abroad to show off their seriously twisted brand of patriotism. These people are the same ones who love nothing more than to fight with rival fans in their own country, so why should it be any different anywhere else? The image of these morons standing, arms aloft, in front of a burning building, with their siege mentality says it all. It's a scene right out of any number of Danny Dyer films. Fighting is all they know. This is what they live for. Uvavu, United Kingdom.

But it isn't all our fault. There were a few groups, from several countries, that came together in Marseille and they were all bad news. Agree with you on Danny Dyer, though. I hate all that professional Cockney, East End thugs, hardest firms crap.

This is why when I go on holiday I make sure there aren't many British – and I am British myself. Tony, Hertfordshire.

A pal of mine went to the Caribbean. Lovely beach house, right on the sand. He checked in, went to his room, threw open his curtains and there was a bloke looking at him, in full Newcastle kit. I'm sure he was a lovely chap. But it's not what you call romantic.

Disgraceful, Martin Samuel. I didn't see any England fans with MMA gloves and telescopic rods rushing the Russia section and setting about people in wheelchairs.Thegreatdictator, Ipswich.

Yes, but look at the pictures. I reported the line about the MMA kits because that was the word from the area, but I can't see the evidence in on the photographs of the hooligans in the stadium. I'm not saying it did not happen, clearly the Russians are a sinister mob, but just because they may be more brutal does not excuse us. Anyway, my article wasn't just about one night or one incident. Much of it dealt with the behaviour of England fans over decades, because there is a bigger picture than one occasion when we were trumped for frightening, anti-social attitudes by yobs from another country.

England supporters were forced to flee from a group of Russian hooligans at the end of the 1-1 draw

France has bigger fish to fry than a few fat and stupid football fans. Oldbean, Bedfordshire.

Indeed, I think that is why UEFA's threats escalated so quickly. I think the word came from above: deal with this or the whole thing could be off.

I hate violence full stop, but if anyone is going to get a kicking I'm pleased that it is the English. JayAre, London.

I think there is a lot of that sentiment about. 'They've had it coming…serves them right…taught them a lesson…' To many, it's like seeing the bullies get a whack. Doesn't mean we should condone it, though, Jay, because the people doing the whacking are horrible bullies themselves. Look at the Middle East. The guys that depose the despots are often no better. And this lot most certainly aren't. The Russians are equally vile thugs.

I see no mention of the thousands of Welsh fans who behaved impeccably. WhatHo, United Kingdom.

That's because decent behaviour is expected, surely? You don't get praise for not smashing the place up.

Sorry, Martin did your flight touch down in 1978? The fans I came across the other day were not like that at all. In the town centre, speaking to a few locals, they explained that groups of politically motivated youths had been attacking fans, as were the Russians and although loud and boisterous the English were not violent or offensive. The same thing I saw last night with German fans who were also 'occupying' an area singing and having a few beers. They said the Ukrainians had been sniping at them all day, in small groups in back alley areas. There seem to be very organised attacks by fans from the east, with pro-Russian agendas. They also reported that groups of local youths were doing the same. Delman666, London.

Every individual experience will be different. In my Marseille hotel, for instance, the bar staff also said the English fans were no bother, and the only trouble came from a handful of Russians fighting with security staff at about 3am on the night of the match. There will be people who went to Marseille, avoided the trouble spots, and don't know what all the fuss is about, I'm sure. I accept that. I was in Paris on Friday night at the opening game, France versus Romania, but on several occasions the following day in Marseille I heard English fans exchanging their war stories. So stuff happened, and we played our part. I don't doubt your experiences but I wouldn't consider it universal. And what happened in 1978 anyway? This. 

The problem lies in alcohol...the English think they hold their drink well when, in fact, the reverse is true. Poffy, Singapore.

In 2007, England played a friendly match in Austria before the deciding group game with Croatia. Steve McClaren had already lost Wayne Rooney to a freak injury and, in hindsight, should have been wrapping Michael Owen in cotton wool. Instead, he played him and the inevitable happened: thigh strain, out for a month. Returning from Vienna the next day I was in conversation with a group of lads I'd seen on other England trips. We were waiting to board the plane. They were scathing about McClaren. I said that he'd made more than a few mistakes, but he was particularly unlucky with injuries. I cited what had happened with Owen the previous night as evidence. They looked confused. I repeated my point about Owen's injury. They didn't have a clue. Hadn't see it happen, hadn't noticed he'd come off. It was in the 34th minute. It wasn't like it slipped under the radar amid a mass of second-half substitutions. 'I've got to admit, mate, we were a bit pissed,' one said. They were harmless enough, no trouble. But the way they talked about McClaren, you'd have thought they had pored over every last second of each performance, identifying what had gone wrong, and why. Instead, they were too drunk to notice England's best player hobbling off with an hour to go.

Yet all the eye witnesses report something very different from the mainstream media. Yes, the English fans were drunk. Nothing unusual to see a drunk Englishman being a bit rowdy on holiday – but all the hooligans were banned from travelling. Videos show French yobs attacking the fans but when they fight back it's England bringing shame on football again. French and Russian gangs attack English fans – but it's England bringing shame on football again. Russians attack the English in the stadium but it's an ugly brawl amongst Russians and English. Disgraceful anti-English reporting. MK, Preston.

And the six England fans sent to prison subsequently? Anti English sentencing, I presume. But I'd say the key is in your opening sentiment. 'Nothing unusual to see a drunk Englishman being a bit rowdy on holiday.' And that's acceptable, is it? And if a load of Frenchman kept coming to Preston, getting drunk and behaving boorishly, you'd be fine with that? I doubt it. I think you'd find it rather tiresome and annoying. And every news outlet reported that the incident inside the stadium was inspired by Russian fans. In many ways, MK, it was a stroke of luck for the English fans – because it has allowed people who did behave poorly to hide, and pretend it was that way all weekend. And it wasn't.

I think the English supporters are getting a lot of bad press. They were over in Dublin last June and everyone thought there was going to be trouble. They mixed with the Irish and had a good crack. The English haven't caused any trouble when they were on their travels the last few years, just drinking and singing – and what's the harm in that? Paddy98, Dublin.

Paddy, call me a cynic but either you're the only Irishman who can't spell craic, or you're a plant?

So the French woman had a justifiable reason for throwing a glass bottle at another human being? Graham W Reed, London.

No, not at all. It was an over-reaction. That was why she was arrested.

What is a match without some drinking, swearing & fighting? Ebock, Namibia.

Fun?

Rubbish is strewn across the streets in Marseille as England fans sing prior to Saturday's game with Russia

The Irish fans in Paris were outstanding. A credit to their country. Singing and dancing with the French. Walnuts007, Bath.

Just to play devil's advocate here, I'm reading a lot about how all the fans want to do is sing and dance with the locals. Look, they're locals. They're not on holiday. They're probably just trying to get home from work. They don't want to be dragged into an impromptu conga line by the Tipperary branch of the Manchester United Supporters Club. I'm serious. Half of the country is on strike anyway, so we could do without the ones who are working getting roped into a 30 minute chorus of Danny Boy.

I can't believe how quick we are to turn on our own. Yes, there are some England supporters who will have played their part in the trouble, but why do we only focus on that? We are ignoring the fact that armed Russian fans charged a section of the stadium containing women and children. Will there be repercussions for them? No, thought not. Nothing Special Here, United Kingdom.

Russia's part in this has been reported in every publication, and was mentioned throughout Monday's piece. And why is that that all the people who feel all England fans are being tarred, never make that distinction for the Russians. I'm sure Russia has good fans, too, and the violent group is only a minority. Just like ours, in fact. Yet maybe now we realise that if it's you who have just been punched in the mouth by six Russian thugs, the fact that there are 600 Russians over there behaving impeccably seems somewhat irrelevant.

I have been to a number of tournaments and can confirm the only fans that drape their flags all over the place by taking over squares and streets, sing ridiculing songs to their hosts and generally acting in a threatening manner are English. I'm sorry to say it but other countries fans will have a drink or two and you can sit down and join them and have a laugh. With the English that's practically impossible as there are usually a number of idiots that want to escalate it. Mladjo, Bradford.

No excuse for the level of thuggery from the Russians or the incompetence and corruption of the French authorities, but the stereotypical view of the English fan did not come from nowhere. Some still do their best to live up to that name, and unfortunately the innocent have been caught in the vicious backlash. SoaPaulo, London.

Agreed. It is an irony that the fans the Russian thugs seek to emulate are probably the ones sat safely at home having received banning orders.

That's right, all the drunken thuggery is the fault of the police. Let's blame decades of violence on them. Criticised when they show zero tolerance, criticised when they don't. I think they've got enough on their plate at the moment and deserve our support. It was only a few months ago an officer was executed on the street at point blank range trying to save French citizens while his colleagues where fighting other terrorists armed with automatic weapons. Officers are legitimate targets according to ISIS and football hooligans. About time people gave them the support they need. JW, United Kingdom.

At the Stade de France on Monday there was a lot of random muscle-flexing by the police, having been criticised for losing control in Marseille. None of it was very helpful. There does seem to be quite a few hanging around large patrol vehicles looking tough but I suppose they are under instruction to present a large, visible, deterrent to the terrorists – which is hard to do if you're all down the port dealing with hoodlums.

There are tens of thousands of English people who live and work along that coast and who don't behave as drunken, rampaging scum. They will be facing a backlash all summer thanks to a mob of drunken yobs. English businesses will be losing contracts and orders, English holiday makers driving around France will suffer vandalism and may be banned from campsites. This cost us millions in lost business. I was down there in the aftermath of the 1998 riots so I know. Roderik77, Essex.

Not having business interests in the area, I can't disagree – but in my personal experience I've always found the holiday resorts of Europe to be fairly forgiving. They seem to be able to separate the average English person from the unpleasant element.

It is about football. We made that mistake in the 1970s and 1980s when hooliganism was at its worst. 'They're not football fans,' everyone would say and that gave the football authorities an excuse to not deal with the problem. We must not make that mistake this time round. Daniel Ortega, United Kingdom.

I agree football has responsibility; but I do think city centres are rife with anti-social behaviour at weekends now, that has nothing to do with football. In my little corner of Essex you can't keep a high street bar open these days without someone getting glassed, or worse. I've lost count of the number of times the pavements are being hosed down of blood. We're a safe Conservative seat, by the way.

Let's not waste their bellicose energy. Constrict them into the British Army. Mike, Scotland.

Or even conscript. Graf1, London.

No, constrict would be better. We could tie them to catapults and ping them at ISIS.

French police fired tear gas at supporters to try and stop England supporters causing trouble in Marseille

Some may recall back in the old days when hooliganism was rife, there was a call for a national ID system for all football supporters wishing to attend matches. While difficult to police this outside grounds, it provides authorities with scope to identify trouble makers. This in turn could be used to restrict travel and access to stadiums. Such an arrangement could then be used to ensure we have a grip on our own troublemakers. The idea was quashed by the PC brigade but if you don't cause trouble you would have nothing to worry about if such a scheme was brought in and it would protect the majority of supporters. Perhaps this should be looked at again for both the UK and Europe wide? Burgsey, Oxford.

I've got no problem with national ID cards, many civilised countries have them – but to bring them in for football supporters only smacks of demonising one section of the population and I'm unconvinced how useful they would be anyway. We just need our laws, properly applied.

Anyone seen a video yet of England fans attacking anyone? They always seem to be running away or sitting down while someone runs along throwing bottles at them. Anyone? Killjoy76, United Kingdom.

Everyone. Seriously, mate, everyone.

Excellent article. I'd just like to point out though that Montpellier has a tiny stadium, so it would be impossible to host a game there. Frennchie, Paris.

I did check that before writing, Frennchie. The Stade de la Mosson has a capacity of 32,900 so is actually only 250 seats smaller than the Stade Municipal in Toulouse. And the Toulouse stadium has been upgraded for the tournament, so I am sure something could have been done in Montpellier.

A good piece, apart from the closing paragraph. The fact is, we British are different, precisely because of that 'little strip of water'. It has been there since the last Ice Age, since when we have grown apart from mainland Europe, historically, culturally, economically and politically. We incubated democracy in a form practised by no other European nation. We exported our language around the world. I could go on. That doesn't make us better, but it does make us different. William, Malaga.

And yet, when I look out of my hotel window at the people of Paris going to work, do you know who they look like? Us. Same multicultural blend, same clothes, same briefcases and shopping bags. We eat the same food, in all its variety, watch the same films, the same television shows, listen to the same music, read the same books. Globalisation is bringing the world closer together, each year, until one day there will be a shared language and no barriers to understanding. Yet you go on telling yourself how different we all are. William, if Malaga is your permanent home now, I'd say like a lot of ex-pats you cling on to a nostalgic idea of unique British identity that no longer exists. We are a mongrel nation, a blend of Germanic tribes, French, Latin and Nordic invaders. Even that most traditional idea, the British Sunday roast, was introduced by the Romans. As for incubating democracy, I don't think that was us. If it was, it would mean the Athenians invented a word for a political system that didn't exist.

You only have to look at the Premier League, apart from the odd skirmish at service stations hooliganism is practically dead. There's no trouble in England any more. However, abroad there it happens every other week. England had a big hooligan reputation in the eighties and nineties so the rest of Europe targets them for that reason. Don't pretend you know about football hooliganism, growing up going to private school, because you have no idea. Nogs, Liverpool.

Actually, I went to a state school and attended football throughout the decades you mention. I also know that football doesn't end in the Premier League and that, for instance, there was trouble at the last two play-off matches involving Millwall. So it seems that I know more about hooliganism than you. Maybe that's why you sign off as 'Nogs' from 'Liverpool'. I bet your real name is Tarquin, you ride ponies and sign off your letters 'toodle-pip'.

Good article – but he couldn't resist making an anti-Brexit statement. Typical Samuel. Armaniman, Nantwich.

I know. And I saved it until last, too, so that you read through it all and you were like, 'Oh no, I've been confronted with a view that's not my own', and then you had to run round and round in circles with your trousers on your head. Which, strangely enough, is what I often do to this. It's French, of course. 

The media disgust me at times. You're very happy to paint our own fans as a disgrace but choose not to show their better side, fans not in any way linked to the violence, helping those injured, administering CPR, cleaning up in the aftermathe. These photographs are all over social media should you chose to look for them but it's easier to blame them all and tar everyone with the same brush. Yesterday my Facebook newsfeed was filled with pictures of fans helping clear up bars and restaurants that had been trashed; but that doesn't seem to be as interesting or newsworthy as letting some mindless idiots ruin the reputation of everyone. Misspj, Preston.

As I've said previously, why expect credit for what you are supposed to do: helping the injured, giving CPR if you know it, not getting involved in violence? 'Here's Sid and Doris, who went all the way to Marseille and heroically contrived not to smash the place up…' As for the clear-up operation, I'm sure the locals were appreciative and it seems a decent thing to do. Better if it wasn't needed at all, though, don't you think?

There's a tipping point, isn't there, that moment when happy, daft, drunk and boisterous changes to leering, aggressive, threatening and obnoxious. That's what a small number of English fans don't appear to, or don't want to, recognise. It's not just fans following the national team. I see it most times I travel abroad to watch Champions League matches. We're not there to cause trouble, we're not organised, we're not intent on inflicting violence on opposition fans, we just don't know how to control ourselves when we start drinking. That's when we become a nuisance and that's when the local police see the opportunity to wade in and assert their authority. The problem is they do this indiscriminately without regard for age, sex or guilt. We become a target for everyone, rival fans, police, the media, UEFA, the Football Association. Until the penny drops within the small section of fans who feel they should be allowed to behave as they wish at the expense of others, then I don't see any solution. David, Manchester.

A moment of clarity, David, amid many heads in the sand. Thank you for that.

I've come out here with the missus to watch the group games and enjoy a holiday at the same time. We have stayed away from any area where the masses are congregating to avoid what has gone on. The missus speaks French so we have been to some great restaurants and spoken with the locals and they are disgusted with what's going on – with their own people fighting but obviously the English and Russians, too. We have come to watch football and I just want to get back home in one piece. UKDean, Redditch.

This is what I don't understand, Dean. I am sure innocent people were caught up in the problems outside the stadium, but I don't see why anyone would go into the affected areas with their families. I realise not everybody is as savvy as your wife, who speaks the language, and some may have booked hotels that put them in the centre unwittingly. But it's not hard to spot where and when the trouble is going to start – there are some pretty large warning signs. Get the hell away and leave them to it.

Just like a normal weekend in any English town. Not a pretty sight but it's become part of our national character. The one next to Pete, London.

Yes, and that was why I made the point about the Leave campaign. Nationalism and patriotism are also a part of our national character, but they can come out in pretty ugly ways if politicians press the buttons unwisely. I don't think Leave has taken enough care with its rhetoric because they see that, in immigration, they have a real vote-winner. Fine, it is an issue of significance and it needs to be discussed, but they have been hitting it pretty much to the exclusion of all else, and the songs being sung in the port by England fans suggests they are appealing to a disaffected section of the population in a way that may be hard to control later. Personally, I think leaving a wider economic community, and gambling on our financial future is a mistake, but it could be the least of our problems unless the Brexit winners know where they are going with the rise in nationalism this will undoubtedly engender.

I am no longer active, but I was ashamed of the new generation running from Russian fans. We never ran. Walterinthekippax, London.

No longer active? Is that mentally?

England fans were asking for it because they'd had a drink and the way they were dressed? If we were talking about an attack on a young woman could you use this reasoning? England fans could and probably should address the way they are perceived when on their travels. Keep your tops on, make sure you are respectful to the locals – but please do not use this as an excuse for being attacked by organised gangs. Jason Haynes, Burton on Trent.

Fair point, Jason. I wouldn't entertain contributory negligence in a case of sexual assault, as you rightly suppose. I think the difference is that the women in those cases are still passive figures. However attired or however drunk, the violence comes to them. I wasn't suggesting that a drunk bloke with his shirt off in hot weather deserves a smack in the chops. More that those two characteristics often go with a third – aggression – and that is what inflames the situation.

An England supporter is led away by police in Marseille prior to Saturday's Euro 2016 opener

What a strange article. So because some England and Russian fans can't behave, teams like Iceland and Austria shouldn't be playing in big stadiums? Venkman75, Manchester.

If that's what you took from it, mate, I think you've missed more than a few points.

So it's OK for a French woman to retaliate but not for England fans to fight back when their flags are stolen, their shirts are ripped off their backs, flares and fireworks are fired at them and knife wielding Russians attack them? Pinkkatie, Hertfordshire.

A lot of the arrests and trouble happened before the Russians arrived. Who were they retaliating against then? I think we have to be realistic about cause and effect. There are almost two events: the build up, and the brutal escalation when the Russians arrived.

Good points about the choosing of venues, but his pro-European Union bias then blames the violence on his perceived view of a Brexit campaign. Quelle sottise. Healing Word, London.

It's all my perceived view, though, isn't it? Some of my perceived view you agree with, and some you don't. Quelle sottise right back at you, mate. (It means what a silly thing to say, for those that don't know their sottise from their elbow.)

If you were actually in Marseille you would see that 95 per cent of the city doesn't have any England fans and, from the pictures, none of the massively aggressive fans actually go to the game. The British media paint their own countrymen to be horrendous animals and the people at home actually believe the majority of it. Tragic. There were 100,000 England fans in Marseille and about 100 in these photos. That's 0.1%. Lordan, Gloucestershire.

While we're making up numbers can I say that 97.56 per cent of your argument is absolute rubbish?

In Marseille the English were attacked by local French immigrants and Russians looking to become hooligan top dogs. In the stadium it was the Russian fans again and the security was lax and did nothing to prevent it. The Russians will also attack Welsh fans and the security are going to do nothing. UEFA's decision to stage the games in these locations is a sensible as using Heysel for a final, when it was a crumbling wreck. Wotspur, Weybridge.

Ah, Heysel. Another one that was everybody's fault but ours, apparently.

What do FIFA, UEFA and the EU have in common? All are run by unelected morons. All football fans should vote to leave EU. Timbertony, Milton Keynes.

Actually, they are all run by elected morons. Every organisation you mention there has elected officials.

It was the English fans who whistled and booed when the Russian national anthem was played. They provoked Russians with this. Nellakam, Las Palmas.

What, provoked them into an attack several hours previously? This was the type of nonsense spouted at the Russian press conference on Tuesday. The reaction to Russia's national anthem had nothing to do with it. Nothing.

Any fan, from any country, involved in violent acts, should be locked up for the remainder of the tournament. Fiona, London.

So, Fiona, if you were sat with your husband and kids enjoying an evening meal and a group of Russians attacked your table, would you expect your bloke to run for the toilets or defend his family? So he defends you. Now he's a hooligan, arrested and imprisoned. Charley42, Huddersfield.

So that's what the arrested English fans were doing, Charley? Defending their families? Where are they, these families, these kids? Where were they in court? That's not what happened on Thursday or Friday, and you know it.

I was in Cologne for the 2006 World Cup and I saw English fans at their worst. A city that had been bombed to dust and they thought it a laugh to stand on tables and sing about ten German bombers in the air… Deep Thought, Stroud.

Banter, I think you'll find.

You're a clown, Samuel. This he got nothing to do with the Brexit campaign and wanting controlled immigration. English football fans have had this hooligan mentality abroad for as long as I can remember and I'm over 50 now. Repoman1966, Reading.

Yes and so am I. I've been at every major football tournament for 22 years and this was worse than I've seen it for 16 of them. I don't think it is a coincidence that the country is shifting to the right around the Leave campaign, and fans now sing: 'F*** off Europe, we're all voting out.' I thinking the meaning there is pretty clear. Unless you can tell me what that means. And now, tinfoil hat time folks; a word from a person who has your children's future in his hands.

The Remain camp want us to feel bad about being English. It wouldn't surprise me if they were funding the continual attacks on our people, which you lot find acceptable. I wonder how much they were paid so you clowns could condemn your own people for defending themselves? Bentalos, Manchester.

I'm going to walk this through because it really is priceless. So, you believe that our Prime Minister, David Cameron, paid Russian hooligans to attack English fans in Marseille, so they would fight back and he could then blame them and in this way undermine our feelings of patriotism? At this point it is standard practice to say that everybody is entitled to their opinion – but I do think it has to be at least a nodding acquaintance with reality. This is real Jews-bombed-the-Twin-Towers- to-provoke antipathy-towards-Muslims stuff. It's nuts. The only comfort is that the chance of you successfully filling in a ballot sheet is, perhaps, minimal.

So everybody hates England, everybody votes against us in the Eurovision song contest, the Scottish, Welsh and Irish hate us, everyone tucks us up for handouts when they go under, but they all come here –criminals and peasants arrive for a better life. Well, as much as I don't condone the violence, shove the rest of Europe up your Arsenals. You will soon realise how lost you are without us. Jazcoleman, London.

A man who equates the biggest political decision in our lifetime, and possibly our children's lifetime too, with the Eurovision Song Contest. That's what we're up against folks. Read it and weep.

England supporters at the Stade Velodrome celebrate after Eric Dier gave them the lead against Russia

Martin, I am sure you will get dogs abuse for not blindly supporting England's fans but what you say is 100 per cent correct and what all other supporters think about English football fans. It is possible to party and drink while embracing the host nation and inviting them to party alongside you. It isn't just your football fans, this is the reason the words 'English stag party' put a chill down the spine of every native of and historic city centre in Europe. Blackieconnors83, Krakow.

Nice city, Krakow. I spent best part of a month based there during Euro 2012. The thing is, Blackie, I do support England's fans. I support all the ones that travel the world getting treated like dirt, because of the percentage that sour the occasion. I feel genuinely sorry for them and, sometimes, as in Marseille, I really can't see where the fun is for them. Late after the match had finished on Saturday, the Metro had closed due to an incident, there were no staff to give guidance or offer alternatives, all the cabs had long gone and you could see groups of supporters lost, disoriented, some with kids who were now tired and distressed, wandering about just trying to get home. And you think: what fun is there? Watch it on the television, have some mates round, have a barbecue, stay at home. My brother went to the game against Italy in Rome in 1997. He had good seats, in the VIP section. We arranged to meet back at the hotel, and we had tickets for a club Paul Oakenfold was playing that night. I was the first back. He returned a little later, because even the players' wives and families had been kept behind for security reasons. Then we waited for the rest of our little party, who were in the England fans' section. And waited. And waited. Three o'clock they got back. Kept behind for hours, then released into the streets of Rome and made to walk back to the centre. Stadio Olimpico is quite a way out of town. So that was the club gone. Those lads aren't hooligans. They wanted to watch the football and have a night out. It was impossible. Where's the fun in that? There's a lot more fun in this. Have a coffee… 

Why is it so difficult for the press to directly blame the English fans? Martin, you had to beat around the bush here to point accusing fingers. Why? Babs, London.

Because I try to be fair, Babs. It wasn't all the fault of England's fans. A degree of generalisation is inevitable because I can't detail 35,000 individuals and whether they contributed to the mayhem or not, but it would be wrong to heap all the blame on our travelling contingent or to ignore the many England supporters who cause no trouble wherever they go. Equally, Russian hooligans and French hooligan played their part, too. If I just make sweeping statements without those caveats, it is unfair. I try to be fair.

OK, so we should change kick off times and venues merely to accommodate English thugs who, in reality, will have a fight anywhere, anytime. Ogmore chief, Cardiff.

No we should alter kick-off times and venues if they equate to a public order risk: which Saturday's game did, as was proved.

Wow, that last paragraph. You have a really strange take on the upcoming referendum. Nobody is demonising immigrants and putting up walls. If you complain that it takes a month to get an appointment at the doctors and maybe we need to start limiting how many economic migrants come into the country, then you get accused of being prejudiced, which is nonsense. BobW, United Kingdom.

Bob, of course over-population is a problem for us; but it began long before the recent wave of immigration. As long as I can remember, and I've got three grown-up boys at university now, you couldn't get an easy appointment at the doctors. The Leave pledge about the NHS is a falsehood, sadly. Anyone who thinks we leave the EU and they will be able to get in at the doctors again is going to be very disappointed. It would require huge reinvestment in public service as well as population control and as the Leave campaign is run by the right-wing of the Conservative party, so I wouldn't bet the farm on getting that.

Commoners....thousands of 'em! Classwillout, London.

It's not about being common. I'm common. Just because you are common doesn't mean you start chucking bottles once you've had a few.

Then there's the Scotland fans who are a national embarrassment at the other end of the spectrum: don't care about the result, dressed like clowns, singing 'Doe, a dear…' Whatever happened to proper men who just turned up to cheer the team? Smiddy44, Ayr.

You sound like my dad. 'Why don't they watch the game? All they want to do is sing their silly songs at each other.' He's not wrong, mind you.

The problem is segregation. When you put two groups of fans in a stadium opposing each other it breeds contempt. In rugby, the fans all mix and socialise together. You never see the level of violence at rugby tournaments that you do at football. Jabbafumi, Exeter.

I've said this for ages. The problem is, if we got rid of segregation now, there is a generation that know nothing else so it would be mayhem. But I agree. Once everyone exists in their own little bubble, unable to mix or to recognise their common humanity, it creates tension. That's your team in red, that's my team in blue. We both like football. How has that been turned into the 90 minutes hate we now see at grounds around the country?

Ah, I see, it's an anti-Brexit piece. That's a cheap trick. I'm still voting leave. CG, Nottinghamshire.

No, it's an anti-Brexit paragraph. You can handle a paragraph that doesn't conform to your world view, surely, CG? Just the one. The Spectator couldn't when I wrote an item about it in their notebook column last week, but I'm presuming my readers are more enthusiastic about free speech. And I don't think the Leave campaign is immune to cheap tricks, either. We send £350m a week to Brussels, do we? Do we? The UK Statistic Authority don't think so.

As many as 40,000 England fans were inside the Stade Veldrome on Saturday night for the match with Russia

It's nothing to do with football. I've seen these English before on holiday in places like Magaluf and they are a disgrace. TVOR, Chester.

Would they be in Marseille were it not for the football? Then it is to do with football, I'm afraid.

Lens hasn't got the infrastructure to host such a big match. Terrible organisation by UEFA, as was the Europa League final. Woodsy, Newcastle.

Were you there, Woodsy? What a joke. My three worst organised football events are all on UEFA's watch. 1. The 2004 European Championships. 2. The 2016 Europa League final. 3. This one. And I attended the African Nations Cup in Burkina Faso, where one match was delayed by elephants on the motorway.

That's the whole point of going to the football. Have a few beers, sing a few songs, have a few punch ups. Nothing wrong with that. Some of these videos have been concerning though. Innocent bystanders being attacked, kicking people repeatedly on the floor. There are ethics and codes. These people in France don't represent proper hooligans. Beast Incarnate, London.

You haven't got ethics and codes mate. You're clueless thugs, nothing more, and people who genuinely like the game despise you, because you ruin it for them.

What are they supposed to do? Sit in their hotels until the game kicks off? Bobbymcfc, Manchester.

So that's the choice is it? Drunk out of your mind, or twin bed isolation?

I see England fans having a good time, then being attacked by Russian and French thugs. Are English fans not allowed to defend themselves? Must they present their heads to be kicked? I see in your headline 'leering at women'. Pathetic slur. Go to any university and you will see students leering at women. Go to any university and you will find students getting drunk on cheap nights. Go to any university and you will find it rife with drugs. Mistified, Bristol.

Go to any university and behave as some England fans do, and they will kick you off campus. You're in denial.

Will you write an article that perhaps highlights the behaviour of the Russian fans? Just for the sake of being balanced? Tadsy, London.

'There are, as we now know, worse out there; sinister, organised gangs of ruthless, black-shirted Russians, indiscriminate in their terrorising aggression and supported by domestic lickspittles in the media and government.' That was the second paragraph. Second paragraph! You can read to the second paragraph yes, Tadsy? It was only 54 words in. 'They were the ones who brought explosives into the stadium, they were the ones who, on what appeared to be the given signal of a launched flare, invaded a section of England fans and administered random beatings. They came equipped with mixed martial arts frippery, gumshields and something approaching uniform. Yet just because we have met and suffered the new hooliganism…' That was the start of the third paragraph. Third paragraph! So, from the start, I accepted that the Russians were culpable. It's not me that needs to find balance.

They came to India, showed no respect to people there; went to China, showed no respect to people there. Wherever they went, they disrespect the people there. It isn't surprising that they are displaying same attitude in France. StarLord2121, Chicago.

Yes, but at the same time that the English were building their empire, weren't there people called Native Americans in your country? Now, tell me, what happened to them?

What a joke report. What do you expect England fans to do when being attacked, just lay down and get beaten to hell? No, you would have to fight for your life. British Expat, Philippines.

You've fled the country, mate. Don't trouble us with your guilty notions of proud patriotism.

The reason you don't get this sort of thing at cricket, rugby or tennis is down to the way that masculinity is defined in social groups. The sooner the working class start valuing education over how hard they are the better. CF1985, Seoul.

I don't think it's merely about the working class. If you look at the English guys who were given prison sentences, most had decent jobs and did not conform to a particular stereotype – other than that of the drunken lout Englishman abroad.

Considering that the Polish have already been attacked by local hooligans, as have the Northern Irish, perhaps you should start writing your apology article already. Once a few more incidents of hooliganism have broken out, such as between Germans and Ukrainians, your interest should be sated. Matt1, London.

Let's get this right, Matt, what happened between Germany and Ukraine – mentioned in the piece, by the way – was nothing compared to the events of Marseille. There was a small outbreak of trouble in Lille between Russians and English on Tuesday, but again nothing exceptional. It is important to make distinctions. What happened in Marseille was exceptional. That is why it attracted such attention.

I went to the European Championship in Ukraine in 2012. As an Asian man I was sceptical given Sol Campbell's blunt warning and media attention on trouble over there. We had no problem at all from the locals. Ironically, as we walked past the bars on the way to the stadium in Kiev, it was the England supporters who started a racist chant when they saw us, even though we had our England shirts on. We spoke to Dutch, Swedish, French, Germans all having a good time. Seems the English fans just lose their marbles when they go abroad and have a few jars. I know it's only the minority but they seem to always appear in their hundreds at the wrong time. Chimera, Wolverhampton.

I can remember being in Reykjavik for an England B game, when a group of fans turned up to boo Paul Parker. There was a section that used to say that black goals didn't count. They went unchallenged by their peers for far too long.

So, why would they behave any differently abroad? You let them do all of that here. Most towns are no go areas on Fridays and Saturdays with drunks and violence. Still cafe culture is good, isn't it Cameron? Vote NO to the EU, Brighton.

Cafe culture is great. Drunken British halfwits are the curse and even once you've voted no to the EU, you'll be stuck with them just the same.

The tiny, yes, tiny minority who cause trouble are not representative of the rest of us. But hang on a minute, if you're drinking before midday, don't have a shirt on and God forbid decide to bring a flag and put it up, of course you must be the anti-Christ. Hooliganism never went away, but neither did the Daily Mail's sneering attitude towards football fans. Owlstom, Sheffield.

Do you drink before mid-day at home? Then why do it in Marseille? What is it about football that everybody gets a free pass to act immaturely?

I suppose when I went to Yarmouth as a boy 60 years ago I must have been a lout, because we always got half naked when the sun came out. That wasn't very often but it's the reason a lot of these lads take their shirts off: because it's hot. Hatter, Bedford.

And you were on a beach, too, yes? In a holiday resort by the seaside. So your attire was entirely in context. It's hot for everyone in Marseille. The locals don't walk around half naked in the town square. They do, however, have a rather charming way with that old fashioned garage punk sound.

Are England fans not allowed to be patriotic? When the Republic of Ireland or Scottish supporters take over a town square during tournaments it's a marvellous show of national pride, but apparently England fans are not allowed to hang up the cross of St George. You sound like Emily Thornberry, Martin. We may have some of the worst supporters but we also have the best. Remember that, because you earn your living from them. Why make a glib allusion to the forthcoming Referendum? This has nothing to do with the EU debate. And this is the sports section. You're entitled to political views but don't let them cloud your thinking. Don't you think there is a chance that England fans, because of their history, are subjected to far more abuse from locals out for a fight, and hard right extremists with vague political objectives, than other supporters? Splash, London.

How can my views cloud my thinking? My views are my thinking. And please don't presume to think that patriotism is a cross of St George flag. Your feelings for the country can be expressed in many ways, considerably more complex than the draping of a flag. As for this being the sports section, England's fans sing songs about national conflict, Irish politics and, now, the coming referendum. Don't tell me sport isn't political. Although, for those who are intent on forming a new, self-determined Britain there are an awful lot of whingers on here.

The press all over the England fans again. By contrast, Russian ministers are saying to their fans, 'Well done. Keep it up. You are defending the motherland.' I'm sick of anti-English sentiment. Steadfast, Winchester.

But they're not defending the motherland, are they? The motherland is Russia, they are in France. They're scum and the Russian ministers and media who indulge them have no credibility. Fighting England fans are not defending the motherland, either, and if you think it is anti-English to condemn them, you have no idea what true patriotism means.

Martin, we do not need a pro-EU speech in a sport related article, nor is hooliganism an issue because of Brexit. That is almost Cameron-like in its mendacity. A pity you feel the need to make such a tenuous connection really. So there was no such thing as trouble from England fans before Brexit? Odd, since you refer to previous, historical episodes in the article. Perhaps in 1998 most hooligans were timelords who had popped forward and read about Brexit. Wobbler1, United Kingdom.

No, they were people who didn't like foreigners; and now they appear to have been given a legitimised vehicle to express that feeling again, by the clumsy rhetoric of the Leave campaign. I didn't make a pro-EU speech – I can if you wish – but I instead chose to concentrate on the direction of the Leave campaign, and the influence it will have on national life. I didn't even say whose side I was on, actually. I could be a Leave supporter who merely disagrees with the tone being taken (I'm not), but what amazes me is how sensitive the out voters are, and how the default position of so many is to try to close the debate. 'I don't want to hear your views on…' Don't worry. It doesn't matter. You've won. You'll win. Not long term, of course, when you see the effect of what is basically a protest vote gone mad, but it will be too late by then.

Ridiculous comment on the referendum. I love Europe, its wonderful variety, its cultures. I speak three of its languages. I want to leave the bureaucratic monster of the undemocratic EU. None of the nonsense in the article about attitudes to Europe by the Leave campaign has a shred of truth. How silly and illogical to equate Brexit campaigners with football hooligans. Just the sort of distortion and demonization that turns everyone off. Mike, Bristol.

I've documented here what was being chanted in Marseille. You may have very reasoned arguments for voting out; and of course aspects of the EU need reform. Yet the Leave campaign has made a very emotive argument, largely centred around immigration and that appeals to a number of the electorate, many represented here in France. How does the Leave campaign plan to control this surge in public anger after the election? I don't think they have a clue.

Everyone should realise by now that the Europeans, and the French in particular, hate the English. When we vote Leave, they'll realise what they're missing. Newusername2267, Hampshire.

I'd say the opposite. When England votes Leave, the Union breaks up and we are left as an isolated island in a world that is increasingly global, only then will we realise what we have lost.

I don't need your thoughts on the EU debate, which are covered ad nauseum elsewhere in a variety of media. I am Spartacus, Ashford.

No, they are not, actually. Until Max Hastings said he was voting Remain in Wednesday's paper, I can't remember a columnist in the Mail who reflected my view on Brexit. All my colleagues at the front of the paper appear to be backing it, so my little paragraph that wasn't actually about the vote, but the opportunist nature of the Leave campaign, stood alone. If you're a big boy you can handle another point of view, surely?

An honest article but I don't think your views represent your readers, England fans or the nation. We are so mired in our warrior colonial history that we can't disengage. Forget Marseilles - go to Ibiza or Ayia Napa. The British abroad are a disgusting, xenophobic lot who seemingly only wish to replicate the UK in the sunshine. As you say, Western Europeans are repulsed by such a culture. Eastern Europeans, by virtue of extreme political repression and poverty, perhaps better understand this Cold War throwback, hence the Russians get so heavily involved. Their thugs are good at violence in a way we will never be. We posture behind the media-generated imagery of sport as war: let's have a tear-up and an anti-Europe sing-song then to go home to our pie and mash. Who cares what we leave behind? If I was a mainland European I'd be begging for Brexit, to get rid of us. PWheatcroft, Darlington.

It is quite ironic, this idea that the Russians have almost cheated by turning up sober, fit and ready to fight, while our brave boys do hooliganism the proper way, drunk, random and largely incapable. As if we are somehow noble. But I've saved the best for last. Get this.

The law of unintended consequences. We are the only country that stops our hooligans travelling. Has football violence at international tournaments ended? No. All that has happened is that defenceless family supporters now get attacked. We've declawed our lion and sent it out onto the savannah to get slaughtered. Spudulika, Northampton.

So our brave hooligans would have defended the decent, sober supporters? I've never heard such rubbish in my life. The real hooligans are horrible, intimidating losers, an anathema to any decent supporter, certainly one out with his family. They spurn these clowns and are rarely in need of protection – because supporters with families do not gravitate towards the troublespot areas. These people aren't heroes. They're not coming to anybody's rescue. They're a menace. Until next time. And to finish, happy vibes.